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  • #16
    What do you consider a decent cure/close fee? And should it be pro-rated based on the length of time you have worked the case?
    Kel

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    • #17
      we all do contingent...none of us like it....no-one likes to work for free....2 months ago i cut off 4 forwarders and Santander bc of low repo fees, contingent, lack of skip work on the forwarder end, endless updates, pissy acting collectors(no doubt worked at Valero last month), and mainly bc i learned this: MY SUCCESS RATE WENT SKY HIGH WHEN I WORKED QUALITY CLIENTS.....as an owner i look at success rate with each client...if they send me regurgitated/reassigned accounts on a contingent basis and the success rate is below 55%, i lose money...volume of that type of accounts just mean i bleed money faster....i am in business TO MAKE MONEY....i will work contingent for any client who treats us well, acts like a partner in moving the paper, & has a decent fee(325 lowest) with a good success rate....success rate tells many things....mainly what kind, and how much they work the accounts....rabid forwarders who push paper rarely make grade on this....if those individuals dont show profit for their company, they'll get re-assigned soon enough and hopefully the new boss will value what we do and change the mix....i also learned that agents always want more.....they'll chase those unprofitable accounts(on my dime) and the good ones suffer....so i took that away from them and they only get profitable accounts....it was scary at first, but after the first month i noticed my recovery rate was bumping 70% and the accounts poured in....i have two more in my sights now and soon will give them the notice....business is a two way street meaning BOTH sides must profit....i will give all for any client who works as hard as we do, i will devote ALL of my assets to those, i will not continue to prop up people who do not....when the dust settles, i'll be standing and so will they...others, not so much

      to answer SeaKelly's question....most of the good clients pay a 50 dollar close just to cover costs, they also pay a 125 close for positive resolution....i have some very good clients who pay 375 and up on contingent, they work with us and it shows

      for you owners on the fence, change comes from strong men of integrity....this is working very well for us....help with positive change

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      • #18
        Great post!
        "America's Best Repo Agent"

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        • #19
          I read somewhere once that when you're out of quality, you're out of business. Perhaps lenders, as well as forwarders, should take a moment to reflect upon that statement especially when it comes to fees & information provided to agents on cases. Quality pay = quality work.
          Kel

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          • #20
            Bryan, for some time I have been hearing from company owners that their recovery rates are 605, 55%, 50% and sometimes a bit lower. I was quite surprised as those sorts of numbers as that would never been acceptable when I had my repossession business. As I heard that range of numbers again and again, I came to a realization that is was not the repossesors that were doing a poor job, but rather the auto finance companies and forwarders that lacking on their end. The lender should give accurate info as to where the debtor has the car. The repossession agent can then do his job which is pick up the collateral.

            I agree whole heartedly. Owners of repo companies need to take a hard look at the clients they have that cost them money rather than make them money. Cut the dead weight and focus on clients that will work with you and not the ones that will put you out of business.

            Originally posted by Bryan/Faith Financial View Post
            we all do contingent...none of us like it....no-one likes to work for free....2 months ago i cut off 4 forwarders and Santander bc of low repo fees, contingent, lack of skip work on the forwarder end, endless updates, pissy acting collectors(no doubt worked at Valero last month), and mainly bc i learned this: MY SUCCESS RATE WENT SKY HIGH WHEN I WORKED QUALITY CLIENTS.....as an owner i look at success rate with each client...if they send me regurgitated/reassigned accounts on a contingent basis and the success rate is below 55%, i lose money...volume of that type of accounts just mean i bleed money faster....i am in business TO MAKE MONEY....i will work contingent for any client who treats us well, acts like a partner in moving the paper, & has a decent fee(325 lowest) with a good success rate....success rate tells many things....mainly what kind, and how much they work the accounts....rabid forwarders who push paper rarely make grade on this....if those individuals dont show profit for their company, they'll get re-assigned soon enough and hopefully the new boss will value what we do and change the mix....i also learned that agents always want more.....they'll chase those unprofitable accounts(on my dime) and the good ones suffer....so i took that away from them and they only get profitable accounts....it was scary at first, but after the first month i noticed my recovery rate was bumping 70% and the accounts poured in....i have two more in my sights now and soon will give them the notice....business is a two way street meaning BOTH sides must profit....i will give all for any client who works as hard as we do, i will devote ALL of my assets to those, i will not continue to prop up people who do not....when the dust settles, i'll be standing and so will they...others, not so much

            to answer SeaKelly's question....most of the good clients pay a 50 dollar close just to cover costs, they also pay a 125 close for positive resolution....i have some very good clients who pay 375 and up on contingent, they work with us and it shows

            for you owners on the fence, change comes from strong men of integrity....this is working very well for us....help with positive change
            List your auto repossession business in our directory

            Click here

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            • #21
              I work for a forwarding company as a skip tracer. And unfortunately, there are some lenders that I handle that have nothing but contingent accounts. So I understand the frustration behind contingency. After all, as a skip tracer, the amount of money I put into skipping an account only to find a resolve for the collateral that isn't payable per contract (like total losses or lien losses) is beyond aggravating.

              Unfortunately the competition (especially among forwarding companies) is so fierce that sometimes contingency is necessary.

              But, as a skip tracer, let me say that I keep communication with my agents open, that I do my best to provide them with the most current information, and as the trainer for my department, I demand the same from my co-workers.

              You guys are the ones that get the vehicles. We just send you information. Ultimately, without an outstanding repossession agent, it doesn't matter how good the information I send out is. I'm trying very hard to make sure all of my co-workers realize this.

              Comment


              • #22
                Contingency Fees, Fish with my rod, the follow up.

                Interesting article from Auto Intelligence Newsletter...thought I'd share.

                Judging by the response we have had regarding last month’s article on the subject of Contingency Fees, No Win, no Fee, No Asset, we have certainly hit on a subject that generates considerable interest.

                We were genuinely overwhelmed by those of you that took the time to communicate your thoughts on the subject, we received telephone calls and email postings from the UK, Mainland Europe and the United States, from various stakeholder parties including asset owners and service providers.

                Owing to the response we felt compelled to advance the debate by informing on the types of response we received. This in no way is designed to form any kind of empirical study into the subject matter and is merely a précis of comments made to us.

                Basically the responses fell into to broad categories, one justifying contingent fee arrangements and one condemning them, these basic responses were also broadly and equally drawn from either the lenders or the service providers point of view. Most interesting is the theme drawn from the lenders perspective was the introduction of the question of trust.

                Service providers (or at least the ones that contacted us) were very generally against the provision of contingency fee arrangements and following is some examples of the comments made.

                Contingency fee arrangements do not provide and environment for a sustainable business model that develops and improves services provided.
                Contingency fees encourage some providers to act in a non professional way.
                We have concerns about the transparency of instructions provided and felt that lenders were sometimes chancing occasional successful outcomes in the knowledge that there were limited chances of success.
                Contingency fee arrangements provide a risk to public safety in that some agents may be encouraged to act illegally in order to secure their fee.
                Contingency fees cost agents, lenders want to save money by cutting repossession costs but agents have to stay in business to provide services.
                You get what you pay for; professional fees get professional services carried out correctly with higher rates of return.
                Not paying agents for the sincere effort they put into an assigned account leads to a future unwillingness to go the extra mile.
                Insurance and good staff do not come cheap; asking agents to work for free is demeaning.
                The absence of any due diligence opportunity prior to being offered contingency fee arrangements exists in no other industry.
                In some extreme examples we were informed that one agent had been provided basic contingent fee assignments for cases involving serious and organised criminality where the issuer was aware of this and failed to inform him, and one respondent vigorously questioned the sanity of some instructions he had received which were as he described 3rd placement voluntary repossessions, stating that if the asset owner and the two previous service providers had been unsuccessful in organising voluntary arrangement then what prospects were there for him to succeed.

                Finally, from an agent’s perspective Kenny Leon from Albany creatively stated:

                “The fishing rod has a price right. No one fishes with that rod if they don’t pay for it. The screw up is when the rod is placed on the shelf without first knowing the price and then allowing the customer to fish without paying for it. Oh thats right, use the rod and if you don’t catch any fish you don’t have to pay for it. How many fishing stores do we think will still be in business operating this way?”

                However, largely expressed by the lender community was the theme of trust:

                Why should we pay any fees when we do not know that the instruction is going to be worked properly
                Paying on physical results confirms that we are getting value for money.
                Agents boast of their recovery rates prior to contracting and never quite live up to the expectation they set for themselves, contingency fees insulate us from this effect.
                It is not up to us to incentivise the agents, it is up to them to do this for themselves.
                We have such a variable experience in agent performance that contingent fees are the only way to keep our suppliers keen.
                We have never been offered an alternative, every agent who has ever visited us has only offered a contingent fee based service.
                We offer 2nd and 3rd placement repossession instructions on a no win no fee basis because by the time the account has passed through our process anything left outstanding is unrecoverable.
                Good agents are so difficult to find, and even when you do find one they can go off the boil, remunerating in this way keeps them simmering.
                Recent poor experiences and compliance requirements are causing us to seriously reconsider who we do business with and on what terms, our fear though is increased costs.
                So what can we conclude from this:

                Not much that can be relied upon, it’s all anecdotal comment but we can determine some themes expressed:

                Some lenders and asset owners do not seem to have much faith in their repossession supply chain service providers and some of their supply chain service providers seem disenfranchised from their customers. There appears to be a two sided potential misconception, on the one hand that lenders expect work done for free and on the other hand fear of being ripped off. There is no common establishment or alignment for success.

                So where is this debate going.

                Well we don’t know, obviously some of the themes expressed can be addressed through better communication, closer relations and deeper audit and compliance routines. Outside of the IBEAM collaboration portal there is no industry wide performance score carding or benchmarking driving incentive and performance and this combined with an open market access approach de cloaking and de mystifying industry practices on both sides of the supply chain would alleviate and de risk any fears on the part of lenders and asset owners. If contingency fee arrangements are only a mechanism to retain control over expenditure and return on investment then this is a) a very poor reflection on support service provision and b) not by some way sufficiently the best way to overcome any trust issues.

                Ultimately in an open market the market will decide on the basis on which suppliers and clients complete transactions in the most efficient and rewarding manner for both parties. Fortunately for us most of the thinking surrounding this subject has already been incorporated into the IBEAM collaboration platform, but most surprising for us was the fact that no one directly raised the issue of transfer of commercial risk and entitlement to greater reward that is associated with contingency based fee arrangements that exist in every other industry in which contingent fee arrangements are relevant.


                http://www.icomplisolutions.co.uk/20...the-follow-up/
                Kel

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                • #23
                  liudashbi
                  Last edited by JUSTRECOVERY LLC; 12-14-2011, 10:45 AM. Reason: ;ljwq

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                  • #24
                    I think forwarders have a lot to do with the Contingency problem ..... of course banks don't want to pay a close when they are already paying the forwarder their $75 -$150 fee regardless of what happens to the order even though we are the one that do the leg work and burn gas .......... Kelly picture this your boss walk's in after you have been working there for 5 years and tells you ok todays the day we are changing your pay plan ...... for now on we will only cut you a check when you can get a car repossessed and if you don't pick it up your not going to get a check even though you did hours of leg work and put in 100% effort oh and by the way we are cutting your pay 20% ...... This is what happened to our entire industry. What would you do to get a car ? Would you not do what it takes to get it picked up . The answer is YES and this is the repo man train of thought .. If I don't get this my kids don't eat thus the element of violence get the cars or go broke this is what our industry has come to .... The outlook not so good for us in the future

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JUSTRECOVERY LLC View Post
                      I think forwarders have a lot to do with the Contingency problem ..... of course banks don't want to pay a close when they are already paying the forwarder their $75 -$150 fee regardless of what happens to the order even though we are the one that do the leg work and burn gas .......... Kelly picture this your boss walk's in after you have been working there for 5 years and tells you ok todays the day we are changing your pay plan ...... for now on we will only cut you a check when you can get a car repossessed and if you don't pick it up your not going to get a check even though you did hours of leg work and put in 100% effort oh and by the way we are cutting your pay 20% ...... This is what happened to our entire industry. What would you do to get a car ? Would you not do what it takes to get it picked up . The answer is YES and this is the repo man train of thought .. If I don't get this my kids don't eat thus the element of violence get the cars or go broke this is what our industry has come to .... The outlook not so good for us in the future
                      I highlighted some statements in red that I have a problem with...

                      First, you are addressing Kelly, and the forwarder she works for is the best out there in my opinion. Guess what else you submit your rate sheet to them, not the other way around.

                      As far as this happening to our entire industry, thats not true, just a lot of it. We have plenty of work, we are busy, and we do not take work from ANY forwarders!

                      As far as the repo man train of thought speak for yourself. Its not my train of thought and I am sure you dont speak for everyone here. If you dont get this, your kids dont eat. Thats bad, and I am sorry if that is true for you. If it is maybe its time to find a new career. There are plenty of ways to be successful during bad times and plenty of good clients out there. The get the cars or go broke statement ties right in also.

                      The outlook may not be so good for you in the future, but once again you dont speak for me or everyone on here. I know several companies both big and small that are doing very well...

                      Seems to me that your negative outlook, or your client base, or something has gone bad for you, and im sorry to hear that....However if these are your true thoughts, maybe you are part of the PROBLEM in this industry, and not the SOLUTION.

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                      • #26
                        Interesting....how do you run a business for free? If the information nis not there...ask for it!! demand itA!A! bIf they do not want to get it tell them you will charge them more money!! Simple..Ken
                        Surety Recovery Service,Incorporated
                        Oakland,California
                        "The Recovery Specialists"
                        Repossessions - Investigations - Bail Enforcement
                        1-866-803-7376

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                        • #27
                          The assignment platform RSIG is presenting to lenders we add key codes, repoboost (skip program), and a couple of other items as al a carte and charge for them if lender wants to better their chance of quick recovery. We do not have contingent lenders. Tags will be pulled on all assignments through the system.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jclark View Post
                            The assignment platform RSIG is presenting to lenders we add key codes, repoboost (skip program), and a couple of other items as al a carte and charge for them if lender wants to better their chance of quick recovery. We do not have contingent lenders. Tags will be pulled on all assignments through the system.
                            Question...will this only be available if you have RSIG insurance?
                            Now Accepting Affiliate Applications Nationwide!


                            WWW.PLATEHIT.COM
                            Intelligent Recovery

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by collateralrecoveryteam View Post
                              Question...will this only be available if you have RSIG insurance?
                              For now, the clients are relieved of having to keep up with hundreds of insurance certifications and other items they must keep up with, they also know their assignments do not get forwarded 2 or three times to someone they have never heard of. It is a live program between the lender and agency.

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                              • #30
                                who are your clients

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